Great Bangalorean Language debate

Posted on June 13, 2008

15


This one is up at Mutiny again.

The original post, Electoral View of a Techie, by Jerry Mannel. In the piece he has expressed his discomfort regarding so many things that’s wrong with Bangalore and the high expectation he has from the newly formed BJP Government. It’s a criticism, sarcasm too but certainly not a hatered post for Bangaloreans.

How did this become a language debate? That credit goes to two people. A xenophobic dude called Sudarshan who has been saying enough nasty things to the northies, which by his defination means, half brained people coming from the cowbelt who speak a bastardized version of Sanskrit, Hindi. So Sudarshan is leading the anti hindi brigade.

If I had to sum up Sudarshan’s POV in one line, I would quote him from comment number 27

“if 45 million Spanish can have a country of their own, 60 million “Kannads” (and 250 million ‘Madrasis’) can manage very well without the freeriders clinging to our backs.

On the other side you have me with my utopian dream of one India, one nation. I made my main point in comment no. 20 and I quote myself,

How come I am not asked to pick up Marathi when in nagpur or pune, not asked to learn oriya when am in Puri or some place as remote and tribal dominated as koraput, not asked to pick up bengali when in Kolkata or Sikkim, not asked to pick gharwali or punjabi or rajasthani….

Why only in southern India are we treated as outsider who must learn to be like the localites, must adhere to the ways of life the locals have otherwise must get lost.

If the country have to one country there has to be at least one common language for the basic means of communication. Like you hve one common currency. Let it be English I don’t have a problem. But to expect everybody taking jobs in south india to learn tamil kannada etc is too arrogant. Really.

Also participating in the debate are Nikhil Narayan, Snigdha, Vinayak, A anonymous supreme soul who prefers to call himself (oh I know its a He, he may be anon for all but I know who it is) We’re all for Double Standards the guy from Angry Indian Abhik and Chintamani Kurse.

It all started by comment no. 8 where Sudarshan attacked the author in a very sarcastic language (he has got good writing skills and the sarcasm is quite effective) by suggesting if you don’t like it here just get lost. The answer to infrastructural problems of Bangalore does not lie in asking the non Kannadigas to learn to speak Kannada or get lost. The likes of Sudarshan would never get it.

The post has 64 comments at the moment. Below is the entire script so far and I believe it has kind of come to an end now. This debate went on for whole of today. And there goes my deadline waving right at me…read on…

Original Post by Jerry Mannel on Mutiny Electoral view of a techie.

Comment no. 8 by Sudarshan

If you don’t like it, please go back to wherever you came from. Nobody seems to be pressuring you to stay on, putting your lives in peril. You are not in alien territory, and you are not fighting in a war. Go back to the good old days (in the good old place you hail from. That might still be caught in a time wrap, preserving it as your daddy knew it). Maybe you will earn ten times less than you do, but your savings will be a 100 times more. You will have all the time in the world to do whatever you want, when you aren’t doing anything productive. You won’t have to put up with auto drivers who loot you, traffic, high petrol prices, and rude locals. You can be the king of your tiny kingdom, speaking your own language. You can talk to the locals there in the only language YOU know, and get a reply in your language.

Wherever you are from, please go back. We don’t deserve your exalted presence, your honor.

Comment no. 9 by Sanjukta

Oh no is this post becoming a Bangalorean v. non bangalorean post… I don’t get it why can’t the locals take criticism? You would only get better if you’d accept the problems you know.

Comment no. 10 by Sudarshan

As I said, we locals are uncivilized boors who don’t deserve your company. Our radars pick up signals from beings from outerspace, who come from distant lands, where autodrivers have rock bottom tariffs, where petrol is cheap, where there is no traffic and where there are only shiny, happy people.

If the author feels far from home, thats only because he IS far from home. As a child, he not only learnt that all of India is one. He also learnt that there are 22 national languages in India, not just his own.

About the police talking to the author *only* in their local language, I believe it is his fundamental right to do so. I stayed in Lucknow, and the police there talk ONLY in their local language. I don’t go around bad-mouthing them for that, do I? No. Like any respectful Indian, I learnt the local language there. Maybe you could take a leaf out of that and learn the local language. You know, when in Rome, be a Roman. Maybe you learnt all that too as a child.

Comment no.20 by Sanjukta

@Sudarshan,

While I don’t want to participate in this debate too actively i wud ask one small thing… by asking the non kannada speakers to learn the local language are u suggesting an Indian is supposed to learn the local language everytime he / she travels to a new state, by that means one with a touring job must have the caliber to pick up 22 languages thru the span of his work life.

Now, as an intelligent person you’d know anything that is not south India is NOT North India. There is west and east and much more. I personally have travelled as far as Sikkim in the north east, Andaman and Nicobor Islands towards the south, been to Orissa, Vizag on the South-East side, to most of southern India (TN, Kerela) and of course pune, mumbai, nagpur, on the west, Rajasthan on the North-west, most of NORTH like Himachal, Uttranchal, and central India Chattisgarh – Bilaspur, Durg and I belong to West Bengal so pretty much been to all over east of India.

Of all the places I have been No where in the country did I face so much language problem except the south of India. The whole of the country can manage a bit of Hindi, one can communicate so save life. BUT OMG in southern India, you can’t even communicate that you are dying and u need help. You can keep talking to them in Hindi, english or whatever language you know but all they would do is stare at you like they are looking at a muted television. All they can see is hands, they can’t hear you. They don’t even tell you they are not getting you. Unless you have seen it yourself you wouldn’t believe how frustrating it is.

How come I am not asked to pick up Marathi when in nagpur or pune, not asked to learn oriya when am in Puri or some place as remote and tribal dominated as koraput, not asked to pick up bengali when in Kolkata or Sikkim, not asked to pick gharwali or punjabi or rajasthani….

Why only in southern India are we treated as outsider who must learn to be like the localites, must adhere to the ways of life the locals have otherwise must get lost.

If the country have to one country there has to be at least one common language for the basic means of communication. Like you hve one common currency. Let it be English I don’t have a problem. But to expect everybody taking jobs in south india to learn tamil kannada etc is too arrogant. Really.

And what about people who are tourist, they are not here to stay, they should blend in too take a language course before coming?

Just why is South India so hostile to Hindi language. It’s one of the easiest to pick up, if we agree one country needs at least one common language why cant that language be Hindi.

Will this language debate never end?

Comment no. 21 by Sudarshan

Spoken like a TDC (look it up).

You seem to be unaware of how unwelcome the uncouth outsider from the cow belt is in Assam, Maharashtra, Punjab and Tamilnadu. And I guess you are ignorant about how English speaking foreigners (tourists and migrants) manage to find their way around non English speaking countries like France, Russia, Japan and Brazil. (Hint: They don’t go around cussing the natives and demanding they speak Mandarin as we need to all speak just one language).

Now about your pitch for English. One country need not have just ONE common language. In the school you went to, they probably did not teach you about Unity in Diversity. And demanding the poor who don’t have food to eat to learn English is astoundingly stupid.

On the other hand, if we DO decide to have English and only English, we can try getting the illiterate north to learn it first. We manage very well with English AND Kannada/Tamil/Telugu/Malayalam. Most of the south Indians know three languages atleast. Its the uncivilized folk from above the vindhyas that cannot speak in English to save their skins. Just so you know, North India is NOT just Delhi. Travel 70 kilometers from the heart of Delhi, and an English signboard is about as common as snow in Bengaluru, or brains in UP. Try managing one day in UP speaking just English, without a word of Hindi, and then lets discuss your experiences threadbare here.

As long as there are idiots that expect rickshaw wallahs to converse with them in English, this language debate need not end. As long as you believe the more developed regions of this country need to bend over backwards because the boors from up north are physically incapable of learning the basics of one additional language, this “language debate” cannot end. As long as the people with Bush’s IQ truly believe that we need only one language in India (and it should be theirs, of course), the language debate will not end.

About your “one common currency” now. The world is managing very well with a multitude of currencies. Please google about the Dollar, the Euro, the Yen, the Pound Sterling, the Yuan, the Australian Dollar, the Singapore Dollar, the Indian Rupee, the Bangla Taka, the Russian Rouble, the South African Rand and a hundred other currencies that are in active circulation today. Surprisingly, nobody is demanding one world currency, so that it is easier for them to trade.

If we need one common language in India (and we don’t, by the way), it could be Sanskrit. Not its bastardized version that the ruffians speak.

Now, why just stop at the national level? If we are integrating, why not integrate the whole world? Let us ban Hindi, and the Rupee. Let us all speak Mandarin (as it has the maximum number of native speakers). Let us cast English, French, Spanish and Portuguese to the dustbins of history. Let us have one currency throughout the world. And let it be the Yuan, because it is China’s currency. Unless there are serious plans afoot to implement the One-World, One-Language theme, we can let India have a multitude of languages. We are very happy with Kannada, another South Indian language and a smattering of English. If you don’t like it here, maybe you need to explore other options in North India. If you are from Delhi, you could go to, say, Lucknow. Or Patna. Or Ranchi. Instead of putting up with chauvinistic people in Hyderabad, Chennai and Bengaluru. Like I said before, we are not worthy of your presence.

Comment no. 24 by Nikhil Narayanan

@Sanjukta
I am no anti some language.
You said -”Of all the places I have been No where in the country did I face so much language problem except the south of India.”
The cause is: South Indian languages are Dravidian languages and are NOT based on Hindi. (Though there is a Sanskrit influence Malayalam to Tamil )
An Oriya or a Marathi has some connection to Hindi in the way sentences are structured etc. (From what I understand)
The 4 South Indian languages are completely different (root wise).

I have traveled to most places in India and am NOT an anti Southie/Northie whatever.

Comment no. 25 by Sanjukta

@Nikhil Narayan

And that is why it makes perfect sense to make Hindi the common language. We can keep debating this till no end but the practical thing to do is to have one common language for basic communication….. by basic communication i mean the police, the travel desk, the general hospitals doctors, the city cab operators etc.

I am a bong but I accept Hindi as the common language, and so does all my cousins and extended family who live in Kolkata and other parts of West Bengal. Like I said, this hostility towards anybody who is not a southie is only seen in South India. And of course anything that is not south is north. The southies never bothered to learn about the countries geography anyway.

If you’d read my long comment above, did I ever use a single bad word for the whole of South Indian community? I didn’t. But look at the response from Mr. Sudarshan, his choice of golden words and the intent….

“illiterate north”,

“uncivilized folk from above the vindhyas that cannot speak in English to save their skins”

“…more developed regions of this country need to bend over backwards because the boors from up north…”

“if we need one common language in India (and we don’t, by the way), it could be Sanskrit. Not its bastardized version that the ruffians speak.”

Proves my point. Arrogant, Rude and shallow.

@sudarshan

Am glad you said “unity and diversity” So of the hundreds of diverse language and culture that we have I said let’s have one common language to unite us. We keep our individual language alright, but when it comes to communicating to the rest of the country, lets have one common language, because you know we need UNITY in DIVERSITY. But no, in the past 60 years or so south of India never failed to oppose the use of Hindi as the national language of the country. So I ask you, what is it that would unite us? Learn Kannada? that is what would unite us?

You didn’t respond when I asked if I need to learn all the 22 languages by that means if I happen to be a traveler.

Funny you say “travel 70km from Delhi” after I have already given a list of the extensive traveling I have done. And mind you I have been to the remotest villages in all of those states I mentioned. Not like I was roaming in cities. From Baitu Koraput chamba Dumka, so you see I am speaking from experience. I am a Bong who lived most of the life in the cow belt and now live in Bangalore, so I obviously have multiple perspective, more than yours at least. What do you know what a cow belt dweller face in Far east when you yourselves are not a northie. You speak from what you hear from others don’t you? Prejudice and half baked knowledge isn’t it?

Sad thing though is that its ONLY the so called “educated english speaking” south Indians who engage in and keep this debate of language alive.

I live in a very old local Kannada speaking colony in Ulsoor and I see how my 70 yr old landlady makes efforts to communicate with me with in whatever bit of Hindi and English she gathered from all the tv. Touches my heart to see her love and affection for me a ‘northie’.

But the young and modern white collared class, too arrogant and snobbish like Mr. Sudarshan would ensure we don’t have the diversity sans unity.

Comment no. 26 by Nikhil Narayan

@Sanjukta

I am NOT getting personal. Please note that. -)

I feel it is not all that easy for an average guy in Kerala who studied in Malayalam medium school and works as a rickshaw driver to learn Hindi.

“The southies never bothered to learn about the countries geography anyway.”

– I am unhappy that you made such a statement.You can’t generalize. Yes, I am a south Indian. I have a good knowledge of the geography.(and learnt that in Hindi!!!)

We are conditioned to call anyone who is not a South Indian, a North Indian(be it upbringing,schooling whatever the factors are). Trust me, so many of my friends and colleagues(non South Indian)realized only after coming to the South, that the South itself is diverse.(be it language or culture) As I said, when conditioning combines with lack of exposure/travel people become like this(You Southie, Me Northie types)

Sudarshan “offending you” does not mean that you can also take the same route.Two wrongs do not make a right.

Again, I usually do not get into such debates. I left Kerala 10 years ago. Having studied in a Kendriya Vidyalaya has a helped a lot in accepting the diversities of India. Later, made friends with people from across the nation in Warangal (NIT). May be that stay influenced a lot. Even my stay in Pune (SIBM),taught me to go beyond N V/s S or such differences.

Even now, my flatmates are not Malayalees or Southies.One is a Konkani from Mumbai and another from Dehradun. (Jus’ telling you that I am not a northee v/s southee guy)

Comment no. 27 by Sudarshan

Let’s have one common language to unite us? Why not let that be Mandarin?

What would “unite” us? A bit of respect from the guests, in the place they stay. And a little less “Hindi mein bolo. Ye India hai.” And a reduced sense of entitlement from the outsiders.

About the traveler, go outside the country and live for some time in France or Russia. You will know how to get by in places where you don’t know the local language.

And what would a cow belt dweller face in the Far east? Thank god we can get news online. Ever heard of the shortage of barbers in the Far east because all the Hindi speaking biharis have left? Let me help you out. Google for “Migrant workers killed in Assam”. And “Punjab hindi agitation”. And search for “MNS” in Google reader. And Anti-Hindi agitations in Tamil Nadu. And your own Sheila Dixit’s statements about Biharis. And normal Bengalis feeling that their language and culture is a million years ahead of the rest of India (Hint – Robindro shongeet). So that leaves out the Far East, the East, the South and the West from the list of people who welcome cowherds with open arms. So, you are left with the Bimaru states in your idea of a united India. Wow.

Google reduces the travel needed to get “perspective”. By the way, I *have* stayed in the cow belt. The comparison of the backward region with the rest of India just strengthens the case for having some sort of a visa system to prevent pollutants from migrating. If 45 million Spanish can have a country of their own, 60 million “Kannads” (and 250 million ‘Madrasis’) can manage very well without the freeriders clinging to our backs.

Here’s another link you can ruminate upon for “perspective”. Thank god we have google. http://www.ibnlive.com/blogs/author/1850/51125/karnatakablogs.html

And its funny when you view two of your statements together.

Sad thing though is that its ONLY the so called “educated english speaking” south Indians who engage in and keep this debate of language alive.

The whole of the country can manage a bit of Hindi, one can communicate so save life. BUT OMG in southern India, you can’t even communicate that you are dying and u need help. You can keep talking to them in Hindi, english or whatever language you know but all they would do is stare at you like they are looking at a muted television. All they can see is hands, they can’t hear you. They don’t even tell you they are not getting you. Unless you have seen it yourself you wouldn’t believe how frustrating it is.

I gather from this, that all south Indians are educated, english speaking and anti-Hindi.

And the “Travel 70 km from Delhi” was for your pitch for English to be the one language that binds us. I’ve lived in the cow belt too, and your assumptions about my perspective are about as logical as the blog posted at the top of this page. Your claim of having more “perspective” than me would have been valid if only you knew my “perspective”. I have interacted enough with people from all over the country to know just how they feel about a multitude of issues, thanks to my education in two premier institutes of education (both outside Karnataka) that get students from all over the country. And I’ve interacted with “intelligent” people, unlike the people you would have met to form your opinions. But enough about me now. I don’t care which dance troupe you were a part of, and I’d appreciate if you stop taking the “I’ve seen everything’ tone. It doesn’t work so well on people who have seen as much as you have, and from higher up than you have.

Comment no. 28 by Sanjutka

@Nikhil Narayan

You didn’t have to tell me, it reflects in the very tone of your comments that you are not into this northie v. southie. I hope I don’t come across one either. Trust me I am not, hell I have more southie friends than northies. I have made more meaningful relationships here in Bangalore in just one year than I had in my entire life in Delhi.

But Mr. Sudarshan and the likes are just too closed minded and arrogant. The are snobbish, they think their language is pure and ours are bastardized, tell me honestly is this not a common feeling among quite a few of ‘Pure’ southies??

Sudarshan, the very first comment you made, it was uncalled for. This post at the outset is not about North v. South. It’s about infrastructure of the city and a city dwellers’ expectation from the newly formed Government.

Comment no. 31 by Sudarshan

The blog is by somebody who is pining to go back to the paradise he came from. I don’t see anything stopping him from going back to the place where petrol is cheap, auto drivers charge nothing, traffic is nonexistent and savings are a 100 times more with a salary thats 10 times lesser. If the place he spawned from is so awesome, I’d like to migrate there too leaving the developed country outside India that I currently stay in. It’s too bad he has not provided us with the coordinates. We inconsiderate migrants would flood the place and demand to be listened to in Kannada or English (never mind that the only language the locals know there is Hindi), if only we knew the location of his paradise. Are you listening, Mr. Jerry?

Comment no. 36 by Vinayak

Looks like the whole post by Jerry ( as I recollect – very much a South Indian ) on Bangalore Infrastructure and or Honble Chief minister has been turned into a ‘Go Back Outsider or Bow before and lick the boots of the high and exalted localite kind of rhetoric.’. Disappointing.

But then possibly this is the product of social and political conditioning over the years which give rise to some xenophobic morons here. The city largely remains chilled out , big hearted and welcoming.

Surprisingly a few Bangaloreans believe that its North Indian influx into the city which is responsible for all its woes. How many of the outsiders who come into Bangalore are North Indians ? Arent still the majority of the outsiders from the South Indian states ?

Somehow I feel that whenever any criticism is made on the city by an outsider the response is a – ‘go fuck yourself you non kannada speaking uncultured brute’ by a few but very vocal individuals, ‘get out if you dont like it here’.

A better response would be – ‘Okay now since you live here how do you plan to solve it as you are now part of our family’.

The people with the ‘go fuck yourself’ attitude, like Mr. Sudarshan here( even though they might be from very highly rated institutions and seem to rely on the wealth of googled perspectives) do not really care about the betterment of the city. If they did they would have responded otherwise.

Thankfully people like him are in the minority and there is hope for the city.

Comment no. 38 by Snigdha

@Jerry:- In case you are cursing the time when you pressed the publish buton, well, you have my full sympathy. What you meant by writing this post and what have people understood. Its funny to see how a simple expectation from the upcoming government can lead to such a political debate on language and regionalism.

Politicians need an agenda based on which they need to attract vote. Unfortunately in many regions of India, this has become a succesful mantra to win votes and there are enough fools to fall prey to this “all anti northi, anti-hindi” political agenda to keep wasting their youth and energy till the end of this world.

Jerry, The problems that you face are universal problems are there are many bloggers in various cities talking about these problems of inflation, traffic etc. I agree to your and Sanjukta’s point that the anti-Northi/ anti-hindi that one gets to see in southern India is typical to this part of the country.

There are people who are arguing just for the sake of winning this argument and according to them Hindi speakers are bastards and English speaking people are more educated etc. Well they have themselves spoken enough for their poor intelligence level, maturity as a human, half educated, prejudiced, extremely insecured and also of being stupid to the core.

This language argument is a never ending one, I really dont see any solution to this unless the politians stop cashing on it and focus on more grass root issues and concentrate their unspent energy on unifying India.

Some one is continously suggesting people to Google. I wonder if he works for Google and if Google is paying him for promoting the site.

Anyway, jokes apart, I feel Mutiny has become a public shitting ground and the management of Mutiny should rather take care of such regionalism based comments rather than encoraging them by publishing them here.

I also know that the moment I hit the “submit comment” button there would be 5 more comments coming from stupid people attacking me and all those people who are in favour unifying India. But like I said, it has become a public shitting ground so that is expected and all the more when the management encourages them.

Comment no. 40 by We’re all for Double Standards

“I live in a very old local Kannada speaking colony in Ulsoor and I see how my 70 yr old landlady makes efforts to communicate with me with in whatever bit of Hindi and English she gathered from all the tv. Touches my heart to see her love and affection for me a ‘northie’.”

Sniff Sniff. So, yeah, lets get this right. Some Kazillion auto-drivers don’t speak your tongue and that gets your goat while a 71 year old’s broken hindi reduced you to tears.
And by that do you mean we are to cry tears of joy on hearing your “Kannada go-thi-llas” and still hear you out, with patient smiles, when we don’t know your language and you refuse to learn ours?

Considering someone’s come down to this place for whatever reasons, isn’t the onus on him to learn the language of the region than expect a million people to learn his?

Why is Kannadigas-are-intolerant the favorite conversation starter amongst non-Bangaloreans? For god’s sake, Bangalore’s got to be the place where people are the most insulated to local culture. And the only place where indifference to such a degree is even allowed. And we’re perfectly alright with people that don’t want to blend in. Just stop bloody complaining.

How many times have you been dragged out of your cubicle and beaten up?
Besides, if Bangaloreans were intolerant and inhospitable to outsiders, it would never have gained such a diverse populace(which by the way has existed far before the first North Indian software engineer even set foot here)

The post above voices concerns that trouble everyone in Karnataka. What’s to pass tissues and rue only about the plight of the emigre?

It’d ludicrous to ask all of South India to learn Hindi, because it is genuinely difficult for people that have not studied the language. And there is almost no place in South India, one may land up in, that you can’t manage with English at. Like someone said, most languages in the North are connected to hindi, making it a mere variant in most cases.

So yea, potholes? erratic politics?Traffic, prices etc etc? we suffer too. If you think its better over there at your place, please, The maximum we can help is by saying, the airport is that way and the railway station this. Here’s your ticket. Goodbye and goodluck.

PS- Sudarshan, Too much!!

Comment no. 45 by Abhik

This regional divide is something I’ ve seen happening in many states across this country. Can’t we Indians be happy with each other? Whether it is an auto driver cheating you or a person refusing to speak in the language he has never learnt, formally or otherwise – why do we have to go back to thinking where the guy is from and what region he belongs to?

@Sanjukta – We cannot have a common uniform language in India, it’s too much to ask for. What we as human beings can attempt on doing is to try and understand each other – language as a protocol attempts to solve just that, need for human beings to communicate.

@Sudarshan, Balaji etc.. – Please grow up. Nothing in this country worth writing about was ever built by just one community. Even the great freedom struggle of India needed people from all communities and walks of life.

And for christ sakes stop blaming migrants for issues we face as a country.

Comment no. 46 by We’re all for Double Standards

The author says:

“….But what did the state give us?….”

Does he mean to say that all that Karnataka is about is insolent auto drivers, bad policemen and rude people? Is that all this state is about? What is he insinuating?

And there are a bunch of people that support the author’s cause with “Sure mate, we all understand. Its just the southies that don’t get the point of your very erudite post” or to the effect….

Maybe, like Snigdha says, with a gaia-ic aura of benevolent understanding, it is the ed team’s fault. If someone does not have the facility to write stuff and makes grand statements, foot-placed-in-mouth; especially people that write with no sense of discretion or make generalisations far beyond their faculties, just send them a reject letter next time round, pleeeeease.

Will save us a few dungbombs.

Comment no. 55 by Sanjukta

@whichever standard you are, double or triple or may be God ain’t keeping score of your supreme standards anymore

I didn’t get most part of your comments, you must be the exalted English speaking educated pure tounged southie, your English is beyond my comprehending abilities…but…

Considering someone’s come down to this place for whatever reasons, isn’t the onus on him to learn the language of the region than expect a million people to learn his?

Not sure if this was taught in your pure language schools, in our schools where we were taught the bastardadized version of Sanskrit…we were taught the culture of, “athithi devo bhava”. In case you don’t know what that bastardadized term means, it means “the guest is God”.

And when we say that we make sure we make our homes suitable to the guest, we make things comfortable for them even before they reach, at the news of a guest coming over we make the best arrangement to make their stay comfortable. We don’t tell them to make their own arrangement for their food and shelter. We don’t tell them “who the hell told you to come here get lost if you dont like it here” if they find if difficult to get around things. So NO Dear Double Standard, hell NO the onus is so NOT on us to get things right. Onus is on the city to make it easy.

In this part of the country, for some people, however, someone coming down to this place for whatever reason, a traveler, a tourist, a migrant, a relocated young professional is NOT a guest, he is an unwanted outsider, an invader, a half brained lowly class, a northie that doesnt talk in pure language, so we are told “be like us or get lost” at the drop of a hat.

Yes trying to Unify India is an attepmt failed to the core, what a revealation after 60 years of independence.

What do you do with such a statement in a country that is still united de fact, “if 45 million Spanish can have a country of their own, 60 million “Kannads” (and 250 million ‘Madrasis’) can manage very well without the freeriders clinging to our backs.

So what do we have next, after Boroland, gorkha land, demand of independent statehood to Karnataka? Freedom from the colonial clutches of North India Trading company?

“Freeriders clinging on our backs”??? That’s what we non Kannadas living in Bangalore are? Really, the mentality is that shallow, I can’t believe. But may be its better to accept the truth. It was a stupid idea to make it one nation to begin with. I am happy this debate happend, happy to see the ugliness.

Comment no. 59 by Sudarshan

That’s what we non Kannadas living in Bangalore are?

No thats what non Kannads living in the Bimaru belt are. The ones that can’t speak in English to save their lives. The ones that wear Chikan work jeans, and sport ex-Dhoni hairstyles.

It was a stupid idea to make it one nation to begin with. I am happy this debate happend, happy to see the ugliness.

Yeah. Now you can leave Bangalore in the knowledge that we are not worthy of your presence. Be sure to tell your friends.

Only Educated English speaking South Indians are anti Hindi. Auto drivers in South India are anti Hindi. Hence, Auto drivers in South India are Educated and English speaking.

This debate is still on I just posted the 80th comment on the post. More people have joined, Naveen and Seema are mentionable. Naveen for anti north brigade, Seema for the one India notion. Here are the relevant ones.

Comment no. 78 by Naveen

@Seema,
Let me pose a few questions for the immigrants within India to ponder. Applies not only to B’lore but to all major cities.

Accepted that people have a fundamental right to freely move around in India (except where Art. 370 has been invoked). At the same time, don’t expect locals settled in the area to unilaterally accept the burden of cosmopolitanism and patriotism, defined and thrust upon them by the immigrants. Am I being less patriotic because I refuse to speak to a fellow Bangalorean in Hindi? Why shouldn’t I question the immigrant that he’s being unpatriotic by being disrespectful to one of the national languages of India by not bothering to learn it after staying here for years. Can only the locals be chauvinist and not the immigrant? Why do you want to consider India as a single non-diverse unit instead of a federation of regions with their unique cultures as envisaged by our founding fathers? Why do you think we’ve multiple official and national languages and a Council of States in the Parliament?

And what saddens me is that without questioning the misgovernance in their native states which has led immigrants to uproot themselves to other better governed states, we keep on hearing that the locals must only give, give and give to make the immigrants feel safer and happier. Has anyone here questioned why he/she has immigrated to B’lore in the first place leaving behind families and uprooting themselves and their roots? What’s preventing these places from becoming the next B’lore or Chennai or Hyderabad? Why do poor families from Bengal or Jharkhand have to travel 2000 kms for hospital treatment in B’lore or Chennai? Have you guys given up on your own states? How many immigrants in B’lore today have their voter IDs even after staying here for 5 or more years? How many even vote their corporators to BBMP or MLAs/MPs? All I hear is incessant cribbing on the blogosphere and mainstream media about the place that is sustaining them and their families.

Comment no. 80 by Sanjukta

@Naveen

Your questions posed to immigrant within India are plain stupid and presumptuous. Let me give you the bad news at the outset, No body here needs a ‘reason’ to relocate from one city to another. We do it because its our damn wish to do so and none, absolutely none, but the state authority or officers of the Courts has the right or power to question that.

A lot of what you are claiming are nothing but ghosts of your imagination… Such baseless assumptions, don’t anybody use facts and figures anymore.

People migrate to other states ONLY because – “misgovernance in their native states which has led immigrants to uproot themselves to other better governed states”

Just what do you mean? What is this “Uprooted from own land” drama all about. No body is uprooted from no land here. We don’ t anymore live the life of nomads where we move to places in search of greener pastures. We don’t have such sad and traumatic lives as you make it sound. We relocate to different cities Chumma because we thought, “hey why not”.

You make it sound like the influx of people in Bangalore are all asylum seekers. How stupid is that.

And are you telling me there is no immigrants from Delhi or Mumbai to Blore, so are you suggesting, Bangalore is infrastructurally better equipped than Delhi or Mumbai. Personally I think Bangalore is as good but some people would say Delhi and Mumbai fare above Bangalore, but hell, no sane person would say Bangalore is MORE equipped. So then why do you have Delhites or Mumbaites coming down here????

I don’t work for the IT industry but majority of the ‘northie enemy’ influx happened to Bangalore because of the IT industry.

Now let me give you some piece of info in case you didn’t know, When an IT Firm wants to set up its offices, the IT parks etc. it needs to get a permission from the State Government.

So Company X sets up the IT firm after obtaining Government’s permission, after that they ask their employees, “are you willing to relocate to Bangalore” and if the employee is not a xenophobic he’d go, “yeah why not, sounds interesting”. Only when he comes down here that he realizes that the local Government happily gave all the permission to as many IT firms applied for it without first making proper arrangements for the infrastructure.

The oh so huge pressure on the tiny Local Government’s shoulder is NOT the immigrant’s problem. This monster is created by the Government of Karnataka itself. They should have thought twice before allowing Bangalore to become the Silicon Valley of India. They should have rather said look, “we are a poor and weak city, we have weak infrastructure so please don’t bring your large firms here. We won’t be able to handle the pressure.”

Since they portrayed they can handle it, they should just live upto the expectation, instead of blaming us for coming here for no reason and adding to their troubles. The techies came here because they were welcomed by the State Government to begin with. And now the local people are telling us we are not welcomed. “Get lost you immigrant”, is what we always here. The politicians on the other hand are happy they once again succeeded in dividing the north and south. Next, we’d have some Thackeray sort of guy here in Bangalore who would beat up a few northies to prior to the elections.

About the labour class, the daily wagers, the domestic workers who come here…from the “less governed state” indeed looking for greener pastures, well they are not the ones who are complaining. As the title of the post goes, its Views by a ‘Techie.’

So the much crib and criticism @ Bangalore’s poor traffic that you read about in the blogshpere is NOT by people who were less fortunate in their ‘own’ cities. Its by people who came here thinking there’s no harm in relocating if your employer insists, and are now of the opinion that “Bangalore needs help, it needs a face lift” So they talk about it. Let me also tell you we only criticize because we think its our own city too. Trust me a lot of us wouldn’t criticize if we had to travel or work in one of the countries less developed than India. We complaint because we care. Sympathy would only take you so far…sob-sob-hug-hug, apathy would make things worse, its only criticism which might just help the city in making some progress.

Till the time things improve some of us would continue to criticize.

And before asking the ‘outsiders’ about what we are doing for the city, ask yourselves how much have you done for your ‘own’ city.

How many immigrants in B’lore today have their voter IDs even after staying here for 5 or more years?

And how many bangalorean’s have them? How many of the youth have it anyway?

“And what saddens me is that without questioning the misgovernance in their native states which has led immigrants to uproot themselves…”

Wow..I am all in tears seeing you in such sadness but what exactly makes you think we don’t question the misgoverneing of our native states? Are you telling me you have never read a blog post where a localites is cribbing about his own city? and are you suggesting NOT one kannadiga cribs about Bangalore’s traffic? Do only non kannadiga’s crib. Let me ask you, which city do you live and how do you commute within the city? First speak for yourself before championing your kannada patriotism.

Since I have been taking this debate too far, people might be intersted to know where do I come from and why. My grand parents are from Bangladesh, Dad was born in Bangladesh, grew up in North Bengal, worked in Kolkata, moved to Delhi. Mom was born and brought up in Kolkata. My maternal grandparents were also from Kolkata but their roots were in Bangladesh. I was born in North bengal braught up in Delhi where I stayed till last year when I moved to Banglore. Now I am a little confused which one is my “less governed native land” from where I am uprooted and am here in Banglore to “sustain myself and my family.”

I am NOT a techie. My company has an open offer given to me to relocate back to Delhi but I chose to stay in Banglore because I like it here, mainly because of the great weather, which btw is not a contribution from the Localites and it stays the same for both locals and non locals. I am settled in blore but that doesn’t mean I am going to learn the local language or call the local food my fav. I can live here and still not belong to here, same way as I lived in all the other places but never belonged to them.

Most people who easily relocate are of that nature. They belong to everywhere yet to no where. But some people want to keep everything within their own little shallow boundaries. For them this debate would never end.

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Posted in: Debates